(2021 Oct 21) Houdini.School - Thinking of adding Houdini to your VFX toolbox? Or, are a long time Houdini user interested in learning new techniques from other accomplished Houdini artists? Either way, The Houdini.School is something that you should check out. Join this webinar to meet the Houdini.School's founder and accomplished Houdini artist Debra Isaac.
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Webinar Transcript . . .
Hi everyone! Thank you so much for joining us today. We have a really interesting and passionate session for you once again brought to you by the brilliant GridMarkets. I'm Charlie Watson head of pr and communications at jellyfish pictures where I'm sitting today unfortunately it isn't my front room with adorned with lots of trophies and so where the effects in animation studio based in london and this evening we're going to be talking to the unstoppable Deborah Isaac founder and teacher at the Houdini school before we get into it with Deborah though we have a couple of presentations from GridMarkets co-founder and the man who's made this webinar come to life mark ross mark will take you to the power GridMarkets followed by a short presentation from Ben Hill who is from Oracle so mark without further ado do you want to go ahead and teach us more about GridMarkets you're happy to Charlie thank you so GridMarkets in short is a cloud rendering service and simulation service this is a view of our pipeline we support all the major 3d solutions like blender Houdini Cinema 4d Maya 3ds max and the accompanying renders both GPU and CPU we also support cara and nuke and it's a very simple submission process and setup process which I'll talk about in just a moment excuse me some of the key features though of our service it's as I said it's very simple to set up and you can submit directly from whatever 3d software you're using so nothing new to learn and no various interfaces to to understand you can submit from one to many machines per submission and our our machines are available in from 16 to 96 threads we also have GPUs which you can choose from p100s to v100 options it's a pay as you use model and the per machine hour cost includes all costs so you pay one per machine hour cost that covers the machine costs the licensing costs this data storage costs and so on and because of that it's very easy to budget for your submission we have a calculator online which allows you to estimate what's roughly what the cost is going to be for your submission so no surprises at the end of your submission our platform was built and it's supported by artists so we understand your workflow and you know some of our people have actually worked in studios like you have done also it's secured by the Oracle cloud Ben Hill will be talking a bit more about that for you so here's how to get started first you go to our our webpage there's a sign up button which you click on and you'll see this interface the first step is to create an account and you there's a brief form that you fill out answer a few questions your account will be then created and then you download something called envoy an envoy contains two things it contains the plugin for the 3d software that you're going to use which allows you to submit from that software and it also contains the tool envoy which is responsible for getting your files to and from our cloud here here's a representation of that of both of those so you would download envoy and then you would have the different plugins for the different 3d software solutions and in this case we're assuming or we're showing that you've installed the Houdini plug-in so you can then submit directly from Houdini pointing to your project files and envoy will then upload those to our cloud which will then start the rendering process once you've done that once you've submitted something envoy will then show you this interface which basically is a console showing all the jobs that you have submitted to GridMarkets and what the status of those jobs are so here you see there's roughly about eight or so jobs that are in this hypothetical queue and you can see the different states of those jobs you can also use this interface to interrogate all the way down to a given frame and identify the log information for this the render for that frame once your frames are completed they start automatically downloading so no need to wait excuse me they download to a designated location that you have provided at submission time we're offering a free trial go to the sign up page if you'd like use this discount code and you'll get even more credits to get started with and you can give the service of a try for free with that back to you Charlie thank you I've got to remember to unmute the the phrase of 2020 and 2021. and so thanks mark as always that was super informative and really impressive to see now as we know the most important things the studio must think about is its security and with the use of cloud becoming ever ever more inevitable for most studios we're very lucky to have here today Ben Hill global director at Oracle for startups please Ben take it away and let us know a little bit more about the services you offer awesome thank you Charlie so again my name is Ben Hill I am a global director in the Oracle for startups organization we're an accelerated program that provides resources to entrepreneurs to help them launch successful businesses I myself manage our global architect team so let's jump into this really quick so when Oracle went about launching our gen 2 cloud offering our approach to security was deliberate and direct we wanted to ensure that it was architected in automated always on and best of all free so how do we go about doing this I'll take you through some of the high points really quickly more security by default now you may be asking yourself what does that mean well firstly we designed for isolation so we've taken the hypervisor and put it on the network layer what on earth does that mean well in short this approach separates the customer traffic which provides better security and performance and as an added bonus it reduces the risk of hypervisor based attacks which are very common in the public cloud if not handled directly also OCI has what's called separation of duties which means Oracle admins have no access to customers memory space and as it relates to your data and associated storage devices we have full encryption at rest and in motion as well as integrated backups for business continuity and disaster recovery best practices now let's chat a little bit about our auto detection and remediation capabilities specifically Oracle cloudguard and OCI security zones Oracle cloudguard provides comprehensive end-to-end monitoring for cloud environments by continuously collecting and analyzing service configurations audit logs and other information and reporting its findings as problems based on either out of the box recipes or custom security recipes created by the admin and to complement Oracle cloudguard Oracle has OCI security zones which provides a secure enclave within customers tendencies for the most sensitive workloads where security is mandatory and always on this helps ensure compute networking storage and database resources comply with security principles such as always on encryption no public access and automated backups and lastly most security free or almost all of our security services are free like multi-factor authenticate authentication for user access OCI vault which can be used to store passwords ssh keys and certificates and OCI welcomes third-party tools so you can federate your identity and access management policies with your organization's centralized identity provider as well as all sim systems like splunk logarithm and logarithm via apis and sdks and that's all I have so I'll turn it back to you Charlie so we can get into the exciting stuff thanks Ben that was exciting I'm excited I am and so at the end of the session we will have some links to Oracle and that great offer from good markets as well along with q a for the wonderful to learn more from now so let's get to the main event today we have Deborah Isaac filmmaker 3d enthusiast and Houdini aficionado compelled by the severe lack of Houdini being schools from universities and colleges and therefore the knowledge of young artists Deborah hit the ball by the horns and set up Houdini school so let's hear her story Deborah's going to take us through a presentation and then Deborah and I are going to get into a lively discussion about her motivations and the ambitions for the school so Deborah I want to take it away with your presentation thank you Charlie and thank you GridMarkets for having me here let me share my screen so my name is Deborah Isaac and I am the founder of Houdini school I'm also an Houdini educator and I currently teach at Drexel University and there's a lot in my philosophy of starting the school and one of the missions is accessibility I want to make it really easy for students to learn and to have access to live teachers I believe having access to live teachers is a wonderful way to learn it's not only do you get the knowledge in real time and can ask questions and feel that kind of comfort that a live person is there but you also have this kind of accountability you're you know you've signed up to show up at a certain time I also want to make it affordable so and kind of low commitment so you can drop in for a single class or you can sign up for a multi-session multi-week kind of class and also I believe students need more exposure to Houdini I think a lot of schools and universities around the world maybe they have one elective and students can't really sink their teeth into it some students will always want to do that every term I have whenever at Drexel it is an elective and it's taught two years after their they've taken a bunch of Maya classes or other 3d software there's always a student where their trajectory is completely changed and they want to completely learn Houdini now so the other thing is very teacher friendly teachers can teach the way that they want and they can teach the subject that is most passionate to them I don't tell them what to teach I might you know say the slots we might have open they usually have more than one interest depends but they are encouraged to teach what they're most excited with and the live classes get recorded and we also have a great internship program where interns can sign up and get free education for editing a class or two it depends on the demand but they love it it's great they get to meet each other and also meet the teachers because they're kind of paired with teachers so yeah they have freedom to do what what interests them also they can teach in the style that's most comfortable for them and that's really interesting because all teachers have a very they they definitely have strong opinions of how they want to teach they can teach hands-on step-by-step node by node helping the students stopping making sure they catch up that's my preferred way of teaching zoom has a capability of taking over a student's machine and that's really helpful as well there's also lecture style where a student or a teacher just wants to talk and not slow down that's usually when the the information there's just too much information so they really need to get it all out and I encourage students to still follow along or have the file open and follow along as the teacher lectures and still within that some kind of lecture style the teachers will go node by node by node or they will have an extensive file open and annotate draw on the screen explain concepts the other method I've seen by Jeffy Matthew Phillip who's just brilliant is that he taught more of an algorithmic class how to put algorithms together it was a programming vex class and he would ask the students how to do it so he would pose the questions to the to the students and then the students would then answer how they thought it could be done then other students would chime in how do we add on to that okay it percolated some other ideas and then it became this big brainstorm it was so exciting if the students have no ideas then jeffy would guide them we also have labs where you know it's just like a workshop where the teacher will help the students with their projects so again we have the live classes here's our current course catalog which I really want to get to be extensive they the classes are recorded they're edited and then available on demand afterwards for purchase and of course if you bought the live course you also have access to that I'm also really interested in developing custom courses and curating a program specifically for studios studios need to train their internal artists and it could be even specific to a certain show like they need to ramp up in a certain subject like character or you know whatever it is I'm really excited by that and also I've already had these meetings with studios for example there was a company really interested in they're doing a lot of ai and driverless cars and they had a very specific pipeline and absolutely were looking for talent because it was hard to fill so knowledge sharing one of the things is that and this is again it's well I think there's a lot of hesitation you know to jump ship to to learn Houdini because a lot of people are very comfortable in their program and I understand it once you feel like you're a master in one program it's uncomfortable you know to to learn something new learning can be uncomfortable it's going out of your comfort zone and a lot of people don't like to do that but it's also very exciting too one of the things that I think is hard for for students is this thought or intimidating maybe is that it's so open-ended it's not you know step one step two step three and done it's more like there's many ways to accomplish a certain effect and so the thing with Houdini is it's incremental you learn by learning from a lot of different teachers in my opinion I think that's a wonderful way to learn and that's kind of one of the philosophies behind the school is learning from a lot of different people with all kinds of knowledge and so at the end the student it's about consolidating and combining all these kind of different bits of information and techniques and then that student will then have their kind of unique spin on Houdini so I just think the the learning process is also very interesting and my advice for someone learning is to not look at the mountain I think that it's very scary because it's like oh Houdini's so big it's so vast and look at that person over there there's a pro how how will I ever be like them and I want to be like them now and but my advice is don't look at the mountain just look at step by step by step and the other thing is you know comparing yourself I see a lot of students comparing themselves my advice to is like just compare yourself to yourself because you're gonna see progress within yourself and you're you're gonna have a combination of special attributes because everyone is different you might have something that someone else is comparing themselves to as well so again it's like knowledge sharing having different teachers is key and having variety I'm really interested in bringing lots of different areas of Houdini to the school because you know my interests are huge and I know that students you know are interested in specific things and we had Christopher Rutledge teach this hilarious class that was incredibly unique it's very much his style and the students loved it and you know he's also has a background in the traditional form of animation that traditional 2d animation and the way he uses Houdini for to accomplish those kind of traditional effects is very novel we were all just taken away by it so again also the other advantage from learning from different teachers is one one teacher might explain something in a way that that just clicks for you so again it's like the the explanation the explanatory power of certain teachers is really interesting and they might show you unique techniques that you might not see anywhere else and this is also how the learning portal works I like this one it's taught in a lot of art schools and I really wanted a learning management system that was geared for art and animation schools and again talking about different industries different concentrations Houdini has developed or focused on different industries different verticals over the years and you know film and tv was always the first one you know I don't know 30 years I think they've been in the film industry and recently in the last five years game development which is really interesting motion graphics virtual reality I am interested in even more you know scientific visualization is a is a concentration I'm really interested in and also you know I'm an evangelist you know any like remotely design related or artistic related industry I think that any artist or designer can get something out of Houdini architecture fashion design product design as you were talking about the next speakers we'll be talking about and fine artists and ai and those emerging technologies augmented reality virtual reality so it's really exciting I think where it's going and every year it just gets more and more exciting the students I'm very actually jealous of these you know 20 year olds coming into Houdini at the University learning Houdini for the first time while it's so advanced so community is a huge part for me too as I mentioned about the live classes that builds community people meet each other and we have a discord where we have all the the different classes so the students and the teachers can converse the students can converse and the energy already the synergy already is so fun for me and you know when I see all these people kind of coming together it's like oh it's working the school is working you know I've only launched it's been launched three months now and already the response has been amazing and it's really my dream come true so that's that's a big deal having your own company is hard but you know you have those moments of joy you know meeting all these people and seeing them all together and again you know and this has happened to me a lot I've made some really good friends learning Houdini and sometimes we get together we have watch parties we have show and tells with each other and you know you become friends with who you learn with and my thing is you know connection connections are valuable they're practical they get you jobs they get you further in your career and connection is meaningful you know that's really the most important thing in life you know I think is connection connecting with other people again community wise we have forums for the classes so the teachers will interact and the students can ask questions and forums have a kind of a different quality than the discord real time chatting it's nice to have both and discords as you know are a per more of a permanent record so the school kind kind of came about by my own personal experience learning Houdini back in the day my both my undergrad and my grad school experience which was design and media arts and also animation I never even heard about Houdini I don't think a single teacher mentioned it and I was working you know almost at the end of my grad school experience I was I was working on something and a student a fellow student came by and said hey Deborah I think you'd like this program called Houdini and he told me about side effects in Santa Monica and I went there and at that time on Santa Monica they had a training center and you could learn from all these different people the education manager at that time was so good to me she was so nice to me elisa sorotzky and I'll never forget her and she let me take all the classes and I learned and I it was just so exciting and you know meeting the people so that kind of planted the seed I wanted that to remain and they moved a bunch you know the the west side the the satellite office in Santa Monica because side effects is in toronto and that that office moved a bunch and the training center went away but I still really wanted that experience and made me realize how important it was to learn from different people and just a fun note was at the end of my grad school when I started learning this the teachers got so mad at me because it was going to delay my you know graduation and I heard one of the teachers wanted to kick me out of school and then they invited me back a couple years later to teach there or to do a workshop at USC to their students so again what my vision is for the future I have a lot of ideas some of them are not included here but I have a really long plan here again I want these concentrations these learning paths these tracks or majors so that you could potentially go from Houdini school straight to a job by you know asking the studios what do you want what do you want the students to have and having that you know also that connection between studios and students be pretty tight also as an artist I love going to galleries and want to have you know kind of pop-up art shows with Houdini artists and that could also be global that would be very fun for me and in that same vein and it could be kind of in conjunction having Houdini boot camps so that would also be in live in-person training which you know the school is 100 on zoom however there really is never going to be a replacement maybe in the future but at the moment there's no replacement for real life you know interaction with students and teachers the other really important idea for me is that from the school in a couple years when things are kind of smooth I would really want to have a studio where you know certain teachers are actually filmmakers and artists and they want to make their own work they're independent so I want to have an apprentice program where the the students can actually work on shots related to the teachers projects and I think there could be a real symbiotic relationship between the students and the teachers and possibly leads as well that guide and teach the students to complete their shots the other initiatives I work on which are Houdini battle where four artists compete for 45 minutes and the audience chooses the winner there is a random topic that gets decided I don't even know what it's going to be we decide on the spot what it's going to be it's random and they have 45 minutes to complete it and this is a hugely wonderful community event and it's been really wonderful to put this together I also co-organized the los angeles Houdini user group which is very exciting for me and it's brought people together and I know it's made an impact in the community and I'm really excited to organize the first in-person hug in over a year soon we're gonna have a party so anyone in la I hope you join us and recently and you'll see this on my youtube Houdini school youtube where you'll find all the battles as well I worked on a project called hip tv and they were discussions I made six of these and they all had different topics and if this was in my opinion this turned out so interesting because it was just was a discussion you know my idea was let's pretend we're having a dinner party and you know even bring a drink to the to the event and I would ask questions but it would end up being these answers that were so interesting and the other panelists would ask each other questions so I never knew where my questions would lead you know maybe I had some ideas of what they would say but it always was a surprise and I ended up learning and it was just really exciting from the surprise of it and that's it for my presentation and we'll be having a discussion soon with Charlie and please feel free to reach out here's my email Deborah Houdini.School and thank you so much for coming and listening to me and I hope you also have questions I'm happy to answer them thanks so much Deborah that was I've written down some questions we've already got other questions so so yeah so we can get into it and one thing that I'm really interested in is you were you have been an artist you are an artist yourself you've since become an educator what did your journey look like on this road and then to start any school yeah I mean it's really had a lot of twists and turns I took opportunities that came my way you know between undergrad and grad school I got an opportunity to work at Mattel Toys and I worked at I worked on barbie videos and hot wheels and it was really exciting you know doing that and but by the third year I was like you know what I gotta make my own stuff you know I've always been independent I've a lot of ideas and some unfinished projects so I went to grad school and worked on some short films and some of those you know that's part of why I want to start the studio kind of later on because I still want to work on those projects but yeah in grad school it it again I opportunities would come my way and I would work on other projects and worked on a lot of you know science inspired projects when I graduated you know like I mentioned I was introduced to Houdini and you know I was like okay I have to go in this direction and I think I was shown only a couple things and I was just like okay my life has changed forever my life is gonna go in a completely new direction and I know this happens to other students too so that took a little longer as well and also I got an opportunity to start a company with someone so Houdini school is my second company I worked in a in a company where my company we did augmented reality and new technologies for again toy industry that led to other you know big clients as well and you know that lasted for three to four years you know it wasn't it was a little ahead of its time you know we have not adopted augmented reality really yet in our society so that's really interesting how technology there's predictions and then there's reality and no one really knows what's going to happen so that's interesting to me once that company dissolved and I was teaching throughout that actually I taught at Gnomon VFX School I taught at USC a little bit and Loyola Marymount and I went back to Houdini I was like no this is really where I belong and I got back into the co you know talking with the company and getting involved with them and getting involved with the education department there getting closer with them we traveled to France but you know I was really knocking on a lot of doors in the universities I was knocking on I was like hey I'm a teacher well let's make a class for your students I know they want it you know and a lot of resistance a lot of you know just it wasn't happening and I realized that there there really needs to be a champion there needs to be a champion at the schools to bring Houdini in whether they're just you know an administrator or a teacher because otherwise teachers have a tough time either they have to retrain themselves or you know they have to bring someone in but you know it's hard they they are set in the curriculum they have already so it takes effort it takes you know and some of the students may not realize like me that it's even an option and and so you know then I kind of again it's like starting this school is a bit also like an activist you know initiative it's like okay you know come on let's do this and if there are any champions potential champions watching right now I just really would encourage you as well to to try to get it into schools the students really need to know that this exists that this is a career path they could take yeah I mean I just having you know working in a studio and knowing the struggle we're having with talent as all studios are at the moment and knowing that Houdini is such a sought after skill and such a valuable tool for the studio what why do you think schools are so reluctant to teach it because we're crying because industry is crying out for it I think well yeah and that's there's a bottleneck there's a bottleneck you know they're the gatekeepers I think that yes there's resistance it's it's this same reason people are maybe intimidated to learn it it's you know I think when you're set in in a tradition in a way of doing things for so long you you have to break the mold and not everybody wants to do that and I get it I understand and I you know I just encourage teachers and schools to yeah look at what the demand is if there's such high demand why not look at it and and take it this more serious effort into it I tell my students you know this is in demand and even if you don't think so now later on you're going to be asked to do more in Houdini and you're going to think back to my class and be like I'm really glad I took Deborah's class but I think it's you know I can speak to my University that I work at just having it as an elective is not enough you know one elective after they take two years of another or several other softwares by then it's too late they need to start earlier and and there needs to be at least three classes you know intro intermediate advancement you know that's my whole thing about having those concentrations that's just the beginning because those three classes can only touch on a generalist kind of major where you really need to have different concentrations at this point it's getting to the point where it's too big it's too vast there's too much to focus on and again when I talked about that mountain to climb don't worry about the mountain just worry about the the need the problem you're trying to solve right now or the ask that you have you know yeah I and the and I've got a question it also is very close to a question we've got in the q a for someone who's representing the studio if and we struggle with not getting you know students out of I mean we hire globally but certainly in the uk we struggle with I guess students meeting requirements out of school to what is needed for industry so do you see Houdini school working with studios directly and upskilling the artists who want to learn Houdini who are already working is that something that you thought so rather than you know also talking to universities but Houdini schools are talking to studios and providing that training for them yeah I mean that's more of the motivation actually is are the studios the universities you know I'm more concerned with the students at those universities like yeah take my supplemental classes but I'm not trying to get into universities they're they're doing their thing and I respect that all I'm trying to do is give those students more exposure if they want but to be honest my students at my school are professionals yeah yeah yeah they're the majority are are professionals that want to expand their skills and boy are they serious and that I knew that would happen these these students are very serious about learning and that is the best kind of student a teacher can have yeah well I know that you know we benefit greatly from it knowing that you know we've got great cg supervisors and we put great you know ahead of 3d but then we've got you know with more and more udi is becoming more prominent in our pipeline but you has time to do the training to teach to inform people you also want to get to know it more right so it's finding you know like the Houdini school is like the perfect answer for that for those artists who are also passionate about learning and and I you know that's just music to my ears I love hearing that because I'm super excited to work with studios and I think my students like would like to hear that too and really listening to the needs of the studios and really curating something special and even if it yeah I mean even if it's in-house training you know where you're retraining the artist you currently have but in addition you know training people that are not currently working at your studio but that you know we've you we've made a special program that can get them into your studio and teachers are the best way to recommend people it's kind of like the longest interview process you can have where I have and I do this all the time there's always going to be that special student and I'm going to be like ah you're going to get snatched up and you know I can teachers will always be the best recommenders so I've you know let's say I've got gotten to know someone for a long time I can directly recommend them and that benefits everybody benefits them it benefits you and and so yeah the the whole in-house curation of a total custom program which is super exciting for me and the teachers and also getting other people ready on the outside to join your forces yeah I've got a question from someone in the audience and they're a Maya artist okay interested in learning it can be quite daunting and thinking about Houdini I mean I just love this question so much and again it's kind of like going out of your comfort zone really quick I think we talked about the fact that the easier part of being in a studio is having your boss say you have to learn Houdini and it takes the choice out of it or it takes to like yeah I don't I'm scared but you know you kind of have to put that in the back seat but let's say you're not you don't have someone saying you have to learn this and you're deciding is this right for me should I do it I don't have time to learn a whole other thing I've got a full-time job and a family and I get it I mean that is really hard but you know again it's this incremental process learn learn in little chunks go slowly again it's like that's what I love about my quick drop-in classes it's just one class and and you just go and again that whole accountability if you've signed up you're gonna show up where if you're like oh I'm gonna watch a tutorial tonight no I'm too tired you know maybe tomorrow you know accountability is huge with learning and so so again taking the choice out taking the the should I do this should I do that and again it's like being you know the whole fear aspect and I get fear it's real fear is real the struggle is real I get it but you know there's a reason why other people are doing it right there's a high reward there's a really high reward and you know even if you just get a little taste I think that you'll decide is this for me or not you can make that decision it doesn't have to be like you know tomorrow you need to decide if you're going to completely change your career no you just take a little bit you do a little taste see if it's for you see if you like it then maybe you'll take the next step and maybe so so again it's that whole mountain it's that whole like do I look at the the whole you know road ahead of me or do I look at that next step and again about the you know I get there's also this other aspect of it's not just the enormity of it it's the the the actual program itself because you see all these nodes and it's scary how do we put all this together and I don't get this so this is confusing and you know being able to be outside of your comfort zone for a little bit because again it's like there's not one recipe it's not like one two three four now I know how to do something it's it's learning you know pieces of techniques like bits of techniques from different places different sources different people could be your friends learning with a buddy is huge because if you have two minds trying to solve a problem it's even it's like you have five it's yeah how that works and and so ways to make it more comforting you know you know holding your hand you know and making a safe environment to learn but there is something about the fact that you have to learn you have to put something a holistic package of techniques to to really formulate your own way or your preferred way of of doing things but that's the power that's the power because it's not like once you learn all these different things you can do a lot with it it's not like you're learning all these different things to do one thing you're learning all these techniques to create a world of things so that so it's scary but it's powerful yeah thank you I hope that helps and that that audience members I've just helped that audience time except I think that's a great answer it's very reassuring and we've also got another question and from shavan and they've asked can they join an internship program without joining any of the classes yeah oh I hope you reach out to me after this so internship program is really great and basically just for you know doing some work we I'll invite you to all of the classes and you have a real inside feeling from being a part of that I think it's a really good deal and even editing is a huge learning experience and yeah you're you're in once once you're in my internship program and you continue to do work here and there you're you're in the club so I mean you've spoken with so much passion so this question is about drive it's almost it's it doesn't need to because it kind of just oozes off you but it does take a certain amount of tenacity and courage to start a business and you've done it twice and you've done it you know throughout your years and careers so where do you find your drive well you know thank you for that I just drive isn't something I don't know I think I was kind of born in that way and I get excited by pretty things and art and animation and anything that you know it's exciting to me it moves me you know you feel as an artist I think we all feel things in our bodies and we get inspired and inspiration is like a physiological experience I think as an artist you have a desire to create that is so for it is such a force inside of you that you don't really have a choice you have to create and it's not even creating for an audience it's just creating because it's it's like something you do it's not really a question it's not really a choice and it's similar with starting business you know starting a business or any project any independent project I mean it's all similar stuff it's the the feeling that you don't really have a choice it's like yeah you have a choice okay but it's the draw it's it's like the way I like to say it is the fear you have to want it more than the fear and it's just that it's just that equation you you it's it's like it's all about it comes to reality when you want it you know and and that's something that's just inside you I love that he wants it more than the fear yeah yeah I'm just gonna say to our attendees if you do have any questions please you've only got eight minutes of the session left so please do get them in now I've got a couple left to ask and I've got one that I've got as well but we've got a question asking about how do you become a guest lecturer or full-time teacher again just really great question just contact me one of the wonderful things I for me is getting to meet all of you guys getting to meet all the teachers and that's been just an incredible experience for me and there's so many great artists and yeah I that's one of the most fun parts of my job so please email me I'd love to meet you and when you've got another question that's coming about about the teachers and that you've got so many times instructors if someone's interested in being in joining Houdini school can they like ask to be taught by a specific instructor yeah I mean you mean privately or to join a certain class to join that class yeah yeah yeah these are drop-in classes it's a very low commitment school you you just drop in I mean it's like you you don't there's no application process you you just sign up it could be one class it could be a couple but there's absolutely demand for specific teachers where some students are only concerned with one teacher or a certain topic yeah and you spoke about your ambition to start an apprenticeship program and it's it just does and this is surely mainly maybe for me or just uk business because for over in the uk to have apprenticeships can only be run by accredited I guess recognized institutions so there's actually only two apprenticeships available and it's only been the last two years within our industry and that's what it was the compositing and I think I can't remember what this the second one was but those two for you to do that would you have to are there certain it's different I think what you're talking about is apprenticeship for a studio job that has a client attached to it and what I'm talking about is where the teachers are the clients the teachers are the directors these are independent projects that may not make any money at all it's not it's not about making money so there's a huge difference there and so I don't think that it's going to have the same issues I actually know the law with california and the internship program is a hundred percent in accordance because it's an educational internship yeah yeah and same with the apprenticeship I mean it's it's the same deal where the students are learning 100 of the time if they want to go to a studio afterwards which is great because it's going to build their reel they have the choice to go to any studio they want and then work for a client yeah I think that is that offering what you're offering that you know working you know in a studio environment but in an educational environment in time it's just that's invaluable and you know with you linking up with the street I just think that whole process is you know you can't really beat it wow I love it thank you well I think and you know when I was saying there's always that gap between there is quite a gap between and I don't want to you know I don't I don't want to offend anyone on the court but and it's it's because when student working at University or college for going into work and working in a real life environment it's very different it just is you know you're working not so much in isolation you've got you know your cd supervisor you're working to tie to deadlines there is that that there's that greater feel of you know it's a challenge and I think being being put through that and almost like that real world yeah and also you know the idea is like the teacher slash filmmaker artist is you know the director and then there could be other teachers that are the leads you know the that are you know so like a complete and who have experience in studio these people have a studio experience so it's it's simulating just like you said simulating a studio experience but it's an independent film it'll go to film festivals it's not a for profit and that's the thing about the school too it's like I wanted to make something that you know that I mean it's a win-win all around because I mean I'm doing what I love it's making money and then excuse me we don't have to we don't have to worry about money when it comes to making the these years of art or films so yeah right Deborah it's been so amazing talking with you and I definitely want to pick up a conversation as I'm sure actually some of our hr and artists would love to chat with you as well it's thank you mark for bringing us together it's a great great session and what you're doing is amazing so thank you thank you thank you lindsay hi lindsay one of my awesome students um so on to the next session which will be taking place on November the 11th with Oleg Zvyagintsev. now I I'm going to try and pronounce his name but he I don't know zionist stuff I apologize but he is doing some amazing work in product visualization and and really is looking at another world of how Houdini is used and how taking physical products and visualizing them bringing them to life for and for the for those companies that make them and don't forget there's a promo code for your free trial of GridMarkets and you can watch and share this webinar with the brilliant Deborah at gridmarkets.com so thank you very much for joining today and see you next time bye.